Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Richard Phillips (merchant mariner)
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. WP:SNOW. If the article needs to be merged or moved, that's something that needs to be discussed at the article talk page, AfD is not for cleanup. The Bushranger One ping only 17:34, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Richard Phillips (merchant mariner) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Four years ago Captain Phillips here captivated us all with his courage and heroism in the face of a pirate attack against his vessel. His exploits have even resulted in a movie deal and other interesting bonus for his life. Despite all this though there are two rather important issues in the article as it stands. First, this still fails WP:ONEEVENT. Now I admit to being an inclusionist, so it kills me to say this, but if I am willing to argue that a Clayton Hartwig, who was accused of causing the largest peacetime death toll in US Navy history is unworthy for an article here on WP:ONEVENT grounds then I am compelled to observe the same thing here. The other issue is that whoever moved the article page neglected to move the talk page as well so at a minimum the histories for the two talk pages need to be merged. Also, as a matter of procedure, we never settled on whether the Phillips article was a ONEVENT or not due to WP:SNOW closure at the last afd. I am therefore renominating this so we can determine if the following: 1) If the good captain deserves an article, 2) where said article should be, and 3) whose going to have the joyless duty of merging two separate talk page histories into one cohesive unit. TomStar81 (Talk) 07:53, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 08:15, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 08:15, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 08:15, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Speedy keep I am afraid this nomination seems to be based on a misinterpretation of WP:ONEEVENT, the first sentence the 2nd paragraph of which says: "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate." Really, is there anyone who would dispute Phillips role was not central, or that the event was highly significant.
Second, Phillips role in the pirate capture -- isn't this distinct from whatever role he played in cooperating with a book or movie deal? Maybe back during the first {{afd}}, prior to his signing book deals, prior to invitations for public appearances, he could be described as a "one event" person -- this is no longer true, hasn't been true for four years. Geo Swan (talk) 08:28, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- The problem is actually not a misinterpretation of WP:ONEEVENT, but inconsistent application of it. For example, we have no article for Clayton Hartwig, as I noted above, because of WP:ONEEVENT, yet in the same breath we have Oliver Sipple, who saved the president but is really not notable beyond that point and thus could be considered for a ONEVENT deletion. If our guidelines and policy were always applied consistently, this would be less of an issue - and not just for Philips, believe me on that. Now I do note here that the examples I cite are milhist related, and Philips is not a milhist bio, so the rules are not exactly the same, that not withstanding there should still be some discussion on that. Also, if you read the afd, I am asking for two things, not just one. You've got the keep part down, but we need the "where's the article gonna be at" part so we can merge histories here when all is said and done. TomStar81 (Talk) 08:36, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Except it isn't certain that Hartwig caused the explosion, so it's not a relevant comparison. We don't usually have articles on people who might have done something. And it's not the job of AfD to correct inconsistencies, but to apply the rules in the specific case. --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:36, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- The problem is actually not a misinterpretation of WP:ONEEVENT, but inconsistent application of it. For example, we have no article for Clayton Hartwig, as I noted above, because of WP:ONEEVENT, yet in the same breath we have Oliver Sipple, who saved the president but is really not notable beyond that point and thus could be considered for a ONEVENT deletion. If our guidelines and policy were always applied consistently, this would be less of an issue - and not just for Philips, believe me on that. Now I do note here that the examples I cite are milhist related, and Philips is not a milhist bio, so the rules are not exactly the same, that not withstanding there should still be some discussion on that. Also, if you read the afd, I am asking for two things, not just one. You've got the keep part down, but we need the "where's the article gonna be at" part so we can merge histories here when all is said and done. TomStar81 (Talk) 08:36, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep per Geo Swan's comment about WP:ONEEVENT. I also think that a feature film named after him is a strong indicator to have a biographical article as well. It seems to me to be a mild disservice to not provide that to readers; the presence of such an article would be expected. Not to mention that biopics compare fact and fiction. Regarding Clayton Hartwig, the AfD discussion was not very involved, and I don't think the bios compare well. I thought WP:ONEEVENT had some wording about avoiding articles on individuals likely to remain private? Is it on another page? I feel like the captain has not remained private since the event. Erik (talk | contribs) 11:58, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep since a major motion picture is coming out about him and the incident that made him famous, people are going to be coming to wikipedia to find out more about him. That is what wikipedia is about. --rogerd (talk) 12:10, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. The film certainly makes him notable even if nothing else does. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:13, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep....notability established for two events actually....the event itself and the movie about the event.--MONGO 16:40, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep WP:ONEEVENT does not apply here since he is notable due to the movie and the event. — -dainomite 16:58, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep There's no case for deletion here as there are obvious alternatives to deletion such as merger with Maersk Alabama hijacking or Captain Phillips (film). As there's more than one such major page associated with the subject, we are out of the scope of WP:ONEVENT. Warden (talk) 17:05, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.